Tue Nov 12, 2002 10:52 pm
Subject: Sai baba "avatar" day
Sai Baba has
finally realized that he cannot argue with time and a
In the speech he made recently on October 20th 2002, he
that his so called "avatar" day in 1940 ( Oct
20th) was indeed a
Sunday and not a Monday. I am happy I had
in "enlightening" Sai Baba.
what Sai Baba has said
>>>REMINISCENCE OF THE
(Text of the Divine Discourse delivered by Bhagawan Sri
Baba, on 20th October 2002, in Sai Kulwant Hall,
on the occasion of the 62nd Anniversary of
the Declaration of
On October 20, 1940, which
happened to be a Sunday, Swami lost the
collar pin and with that
the veil of Maya disappeared. The worldly
attachment left Him in
the form of the collar pin. He left home
saying that Maya could
not bind Him any longer. This happened after a
visit to Hampi.
Embodiments of Love!
It happened when I
was at Uravakonda......<<<<<
foolishness follows... see what Sai Baba says later in the
speech made on Oct 20 2002...
>>After returning from
Hampi, I was going to school wearing the
collar pin. The pin
dropped on the way and could not be traced. A
major change took
place in Me. Worldly attachment left Me in the
guise of a collar
pin. I decided to embark on My mission to alleviate
sufferings of My devotees. I threw away the books and entered the
garden of the Excise Commissioner Hanumantha
Sai Baba still says he lost his collar
pin while going to school etc
etc.... and right at the begining
of the speech, he has sung a poem
saying specifically it was a
Sunday... and in Sai Baba's official
website, the audio
recording of another speech is available where he
that Oct 20 1940 was a "Somavaram" or Monday..
proves that the speech writers just changed Monday to
view of the embarrassment this mistake is causing, but
change the contents of the speech !!
So, can the "avatar"
please let us all know how he had been mistaken
about his own
"avatar day" for 62 years and how come if it was a
was going to school on a Sunday !!!
Brian Steel November 2002
I write with reference to the posting on exbaba on 15 November 2002: 'Sai Baba "avatar day" correction' by Hari Sampath.
Mr Sampath rightly rejoices at the discovery that the SSO, and apparently SB himself, have been forced to rectify one of their many errors. This one was pointed out by Sampath in 2001:
the official Declaration Day of Monday 20 October 1940 should be Sunday, he said.
However, for the sake of consistency, I think it should be recognised that by pointing out this relatively minor admission of error by both SB and the SSO, Sampath is contradicting part of another recent note of his own (and a lot of evidence by others), and thereby unconsciously collaborating with the SSO by postponing their need to make the much more important and embarrassing admission of a fundamental discrepancy in SB's memory and their official story: the YEAR of the declaration, which was 1943 (Oct. 20 equals Wednesday, perhaps?) rather than the discredited official 1940 (now unfortunately but accidentally endorsed by Sampath).
As many people now know, this 3 year discrepancy in the official date of Declarations first came to light in late 2000 with the publication of LIMF (complete with school register photostats and a wealth of supporting detail).
The important discrepancy was described and commented on (with a credit to LIMF) in my November 2001 web-book "SSB: God or Guru?" In March 2002 Messrs Balaraman and Sampath repeated the story, unfortunately with no "credits" to anyone else, as if it were the 'scoop' discovery of Mr Balaraman on safari in India, followed by the "new" analysis by Mr Sampath.
For the detailed March notes by Balaraman and Sampath, see the exbaba files, or the direct URL reference below.
"Lies proved by Sathya Sai Baba's School Record "
With an answer below from Hari Sampath
From: sureshbalaraman (sureshbalaraman)
Document date: Thu Mar 7, 2002 1:49 a.m.
Subject: SSB School; Record At Bukkapatnam.
Response to Mr Brian Steel's letter "Accidental discrepancy"
Sent: Sunday 17 november 2002 2:34
I would like to once again clarify some points about the "avatar day" issue. Mr Steel has written:
>>Mr Sampath rightly rejoices at the discovery that the SSO, and apparently SB himself, have been forced to rectify one of their many errors. This one was pointed out by Sampath in 2001: the official Declaration Day of Monday 20 October 1940 should be Sunday, he said.<<
If anyone reads my articles on this subject on my website, http://www.sathyasaivictims.com, under Sai Baba lies, it is very clear that I had always said that the so called "avatar day" and the so called " declaration" never took place. It is NOT my contention that it did take place and just that Sai Baba is making a mistake about the date/day. A most emphatic NO. It is my contention that these events NEVER took place, whether it was in 1940, 1943 or for that matter any year.
My entire point in proving that Sai Baba lied on this has been that he invented this incident later and hence made a mistake about the day/date.
>>However, for the sake of consistency, I think it should be recognised that by pointing out this relatively minor admission of error by both SB and the SSO, Sampath is contradicting part of another recent note of his own (and a lot of evidence by others), and thereby unconsciously collaborating with the SSO by postponing their need to make the much more important and embarrassing admission of a fundamental discrepancy in SB's memory and their official story: the YEAR of the declaration, which was 1943 (Oct. 20 equals Wednesday, perhaps?) rather than the discredited official 1940 (now unfortunately but accidentally endorsed by Sampath).<<
Nowhere am I contradicting anything from what I said earlier. Just because I proved again with that school record that Sai Baba left school in 1943, DOES NOT MEAN I subscribe to the "avatar declaration" theory. To suggest that I am endorsing the "avatar day" and unconsciously collaborating with the Sai Baba org is laughable. I repeat that NOWHERE have I ever said that the "avatar day" took place at all... in fact I had all along been saying that it NEVER took place... in any year. In fact Mr Steel seems to be the one who is saying that this so called "avatar day" must have taken place in 1943, a theory I wholly reject. It is only proved that Sai Baba was still in school in 1943 and left only then, but there is no proof of any "avatar day" having taken place, and Mr Steel by suggesting that it did take place on a Wednesday in 1943 , is in fact endorsing the claim to such an incident having taken place at all.
Mr Steel writes about a fundamental "discrepancy" in Sai Baba's memory, which he strives to force the SB org to acknowledge, but my position is lot different on this issue. I do not think this is an issue of memory at all, but instead a pointer to a blatant lie, fundamental to the entire "avatar" hoax, and this small discrepancy in day/date is PROOF that such an incident never took place at all... in ANY year.
The reference that Mr Steel has posted in an apparent bid to show my "contradiction" in fact clearly shows that there is NO contradiction. Here is what I had said in that post:
"The very minimum that this school record shows is:
1. On July 5th 1941, sb was very much in school, because the date of entry of some information says "5-7-41"
2. The date of birth of sb is October 4th 1929
3. SB was in 8th standard (8th grade), and there is a clear mention of public exam dated 6.4.42 (April 6th 1942)
These points clearly prove that SB was always lying about date of birth (which he says is Nov 23 1926), the time he left school (Oct 20 1940) and the fact he says he had already taken and passed his public exam for 8th grade before he left school (in Oct 1940). Since public exams in India are always given in April, and the school records too mention this, obviously Sai Baba has been lying about all these things.Many of these lies had already been nailed and proved in other articles... this record is yet another proof. For those who kept arguing stupidly about Telegu calendar etc, it is obvious now what calendar the sb school used in that period.
As is abundantly clear from all these posts and articles, there has never ever been any contradiction in my views on Sai Baba's life in school at that time, which is
1. Sai Baba never left school in 1940, he was very much in school in for a couple of years more.
2. All this so called "avatar day" incidents were invented lies, and NEVER took place, whether in 1940, 1943 or for that matter any year, and these small discrepancies prove the larger lie.
I hope that this clarifies some erroneous interpretations that Mr Steel has formed and written about in the website.
Here is an extract from the original article I wrote about Sai Baba's first "lie".
>>That date being a Sunday, there would have been no school !!
It is very clear that something is seriously wrong with Sai Baba’s elaborate story of the "announcement". Could it perhaps be that Sai Baba said "October 20th" by mistake, when he meant to say "October 21st". Possible, if that was the case, then it raises the question, when was the slip made?
If we note Sai Baba’s speech, he says that he sang a song on that day, and he again sings it in 1990. That song contains the date October 20th. Not only that, for the last 60 years the Sai Baba organization has been celebrating October 20th as the "avatar day". Even in this speech on Oct 20th 1990, Sai Baba refers to "Monday, October 20th" several times (highlighted in bold). How can it ALL be slips of the mouth, how can "god" have slipped up badly in getting the date correct when he was composing that song, before "announcing" his "avatar" in 1940 ?And how can "god" be making slips of the mouth for several decades?? And that too about such an important event as the "announcement of divinity" day?? Impossible. So what is the only explanation? October 20th 1940 was a day that was "chosen" much later by Sai Baba to be the "avatar day".
Those events NEVER took place as he says. They could NOT have taken place.
Sai Baba "manufactured" that story of his "divine announcement", randomly selected a day and date, and simply forgot to check if the day and date tallied. Just plain stupid of him, and possibly arrogant in the knowledge that no one will ever check all these things minutely. That is possibly true too, because, as followers, why should anyone ever doubt Sai Baba’s words about factual accuracy.
This "announcement" and all related stories was the FIRST Lie.<<
As can be clearly seen, I had all along held the position that the whole thing was an invented hoax, which I still believe... and I do NOT share Mr Steel's suggestion that they did take place, only that it did so in 1943, and hence Sai Baba had a discrepancy of memory.
In fact I believe that the Sai Baba org will happily embrace Mr Steel's theory of 1943 and attribute the "discrepancy" to some of the chroniclers, rather than face my theory that the whole thing is standing proof that Sai Baba is a complete and total liar!!
Reply to Mr Sampath's recent Reply
Sent: Tuesday 19 november 2002 15:37
"I have just posted a reply to Mr Sampath's recent Reply on my website,
since I do not think it appropriate to continue our exchange of views on a
site which is not a Discussion Group but a site for News and Views on SB.
My e-mail address is listed on my Home Page if Mr Sampath, or anyone else,
has further comments to make on matters of substance."